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alice_cennamo
live sticks in practicums

Hi all,

For those of you teaching peripheral IV classes, anyone still teaching doing live sticks with class participants?  Although it gives experience on real people, I felt it was an old practice with too much liability involved.  However I have received calls from nurses lately regarding peripheral IV and phlebotomy classes in our area that have attendees sticking each other for their practicum.  For years some of the EMT courses used this method.

What are others doing? If you are teaching using live sticks, do the participants sign some type of release?  Alice

lynncrni
I do not allow using healthy
I do not allow using healthy volunteers to receive venipunctures in any class taught by my company. This is a strict company policy because the risk is too great including damage to the volunteers veins, exposure to blood, etc. I often ask nurses who insist upon the need for this if they would allow a learner to insert a urinary catheter or some other invasive procedure on them for learning purposes! I use training arms because I can not afford the computer-based simulation device yet. Then there is a period of precepted clinical practice where they actually stick patients. Sticking healthy volunteers is truly no better than sticking a training arm because it does not really demonstrate competency. True competency can only be demonstrated in the real world of work where the learner must make appropriate decisions about site and catheter selection based on the patient's needs and perform all aseptic techniques thoroughly. Many of these aspects will be lacking in a simulated lab setting regardless of whether you are sticking healthy volunteers or training arms. Lynn

Lynn Hadaway, M.Ed., RN, NPD-BC, CRNI

Lynn Hadaway Associates, Inc.

PO Box 10

Milner, GA 30257

Website http://www.hadawayassociates.com

Office Phone 770-358-7861

alice_cennamo
Yes Lynn, I agree.  I just
Yes Lynn, I agree.  I just wonder if anyone else has noted a recent trend of companies in other areas practicing live sticks on class participants.  My area is Connecticut and New York metro.  Alice
Gwen Irwin
Wasn't this also an OSHA

Wasn't this also an OSHA issue that moved hospitals and other healthcare areas to stop with this practice of using healthy workers/volunteers? 

We haven't allowed live sticks in years, for any venous access training.

Gwen Irwin

Austin, Texas

alice_cennamo
Good point.  I don't know

Good point.  I don't know if it was an OSHA issue.  Maybe someone else in the group is aware of this.

Alice 

ann zonderman
Ann Zonderman, BSN, JD,

Ann Zonderman, BSN, JD, CRNI, LHRM

 Well, I have a different take on this.  Per the Board of LVN,  California LVN must be IV certified to mange IV therapy.  Certification courses requires 3  successful insertions of  peripheral IVs

 All my classes have a live - student to student insertion practicum. They understand that this is necessary, may volunteer to opt out, or bring their own volunteer and must  sign a waiver holding the organization I work for harmless.  One on one student instructor observation, limited class size for this 4 day class.

 I do see a large difference in the demo hands/ arms and real life.  Just learning to manage the equipment, blood return, patient prep (we set up a true patient  scenario)  orders, patient information, aseptic tech, cath insertions, and documetnation  I have not seen any OSHA guidelines, but for sure we are diligent about being sure no blood contamination, gloves, diligent hand washing and strict disposal of all equipment.

A

Ann Zonderman, BSN, JD, CRNI

alice_cennamo
Ann, thank you for your

Ann, thank you for your input. I think there is a reoccurance of using this practice in my state, Connecticut.  But here we do not have a state mandated requirement for a certain # of sticks for IV certification.  I can understand the need to have a waiver signed. The alternative of having the participants get precepted clinical practice right after the class is not always an option. 

Alice 

 

alice_cennamo
Ann, thank you for your

Ann, thank you for your input. I think there is a reoccurance of using this practice in my state, Connecticut.  But here we do not have a state mandated requirement for a certain # of sticks for IV certification.  I can understand the need to have a waiver signed. The alternative of having the participants get precepted clinical practice right after the class is not always an option. 

Alice 

 

alice_cennamo
Ann, thank you for your

Ann, thank you for your input. I think there is a reoccurance of using this practice in my state, Connecticut.  But here we do not have a state mandated requirement for a certain # of sticks for IV certification.  I can understand the need to have a waiver signed. The alternative of having the participants get precepted clinical practice right after the class is not always an option. 

Alice 

 

Wendie Silverma...
I totally agree with Ann

I totally agree with Ann Zonderman (above). I occasionally teach the LVN IV Certification 4-day (30 hour) Course. Per the LVN Board in California, three (3) successful "live" sticks are required. If I have over 12-15 students in the class I always have another instructor with me in class on the days when the students do their live sticks. The instructor must be right there with the student when doing the insertion. If I feel the student is not capable or competent at the moment of insertion,I tell them to stop the procedure. I have been teaching this course on & off for almost 12 years and have never had any problems with live sticks on the recipient of the insertion.

We certainly do have the students sign a waiver that they understand "live-sticks" are a part of the IV Certification Course.

bcrannell
My institution is in the
My institution is in the process of developing an IV Therapy course for LPNs.  I have the Infusion Nurses text and was wondering if anyone has a predeveloped course for purchase.  thanks, billie
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